garboodos, haunted edition 👻
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No one needs to starve. No one needs to freeze. No one needs to die. There is enough for everyone. More empty homes than all the people without them, more food than grocers can even sell. The labor and the materials to end scarcity exist now. It is not a far-off dream. We can end scarcity in this life.

@garbados Artificial scarcity in the name of profit is one of the most egregious things about the modern world

@And_Zoidberg it’s nightmarish. you stand hungry at grocery windows and know they’re just gonna throw it away and by golly when they do you hope they don’t lock the bins, or you’re gonna stay hungry. you find yourself without reliable shelter amid neighborhoods of FOR RENT signs in front of empty homes. normies cannot stop looking when they think you can’t see them; they pretend you do not exist when you can. warehouses of vital meds get stuck behind procedure and inaction, creating shortages.

@And_Zoidberg
It's the price regulation by the government that you propose?
Or the more aggressive and widespread application of antitrust laws?

@garbados
Not that I disagreed, but I want to know how to solve this problem. Only "rising awareness" isn't something I want to do. Large-scale violence won't work either.

@amiloradovsky @And_Zoidberg

"price regulations by the government"

🤔 the last time i checked it wasn't the state telling your boss to rip you off, or the distributor to overstock food and throw out what isn't bought amid thousands fucking starving, or the developers to build houses only for the rich, or the slumlords and "rental management agencies" who hold our access to shelter hostage. profit drives artificial scarcity and if we are to survive then it must be destroyed.

@amiloradovsky @And_Zoidberg as for the "how", the first step is survival. the rich and the scabs do not consider these problems the way that those murdered by them do; it is an abstraction to them, a kind of amusing puzzle. to me it is a gun pointed at everyone i know.

grey markets, acapital material networks, whispernets, stakeholder cooperatives, and sheer comradery have kept us alive and as they mature and fortify, they will keep more of us alive. we must seize the means of survival.

@garbados
Sorry, I can't read this language. Although I may have a vague idea of what that means.
@And_Zoidberg

@garbados
So, the answer is "yes, establish the bureau of the prices, please", if I understood correctly?
@And_Zoidberg

@garbados
Whatever you call it. An organ deciding what is "fair" price for certain (or all) goods, and enforcing the rule that the said goods are sold/bought for at most/least the said price.
Minimum wage is an example of this policy. Yet it's considered only applicable in extreme cases (disasters, to be specific).
@And_Zoidberg

@amiloradovsky i find prices on survival goods like food and shelter to be categorically abhorrent. our survival should not depend on our profitability; nobody should die of exposure in a city with empty homes. we can organize the labor and materials to produce and distribute the means of survival beyond any notion of price or profit. nobody needs to die.

@garbados
So, you're advocating for the resources, needed to fulfill the basic necessities, being provided without the notion of price and money (a universal equivalent) ever involved? Allocated among the live citizens according to an established rules? — This indeed may save lives, in the short run. As in war times. But is it sustainable in the long run? And what about the bureaucracy?

Why not move out of the city, into a rural area? This will reduce the demand for housing in cities.

@amiloradovsky no problem. i have to leave for now but i will try and continue this thread later today :)

@Wolf480pl How do you plan to ensure your neighbours do not starve? How will you keep them housed? It's not a question of how. How will differ for us all. The alternative is death. Every year it takes more of us while we are told this is the only way. Capitalist apologia concludes the only way forward involves leaving you dead of exposure in a city full of empty homes.

Why do you ask?

@garbados Because it's easy to say "we should fix the world" or "we should heal the sick, solve poverty, give everyone a job, and they'll all live happily after". Everyone can say it. But it's way harder to actually propose some way of achieving it. And even harder to actually do it. I want something I can act on.

@Wolf480pl here's a proposal: just give the empty homes away. just let whoever wants 'em, have 'em, if they're gonna live there. financial analysis says it's cheaper than cleaning bodies off the street.

proposals are meaningless unless there's labor and materials behind them. are you gonna put labor and materials into ending scarcity?

nobody's giving orders. it's our own lives on the line.

@garbados as someone dealing with aggravation of chronic illness by losing my home due to chronic illness, I approve this message @wolf480pl
@garbados good ppl put their home & resources on the line for me and having no certainty or space of my own is still killing me @wolf480pl

@garbados @jjg Do you guys have a good site to send ppl to? I mean I know already that we (in the west at least) waste over half of our food and so on. Don't have good links on empty homes, but I know china for e.g. has entire empty cities...
Thanks when you have time to link me up. If there isn't somthing comprehensive already, we should make one.

@gemlog it depends on the place. i can speak about the conditions where i'm at, but you can maybe look these up more local to you?

@garbados 10,800 housing units sit empty in Vancouver, most are apartments

bc.ctvnews.ca/10-800-housing-u

Is one link I found. At least it is my province, but it's not exactly local to me as Vancouver is a 1,400km drive South of my town. I can't find any numbers like that for my town. Zero and near zero vacancy rate here for several years. Cold here a bit, so we also have dry and wet (you can be high) shelters and more in winter. More a logistics problem for a broader area I guess.

@garbados A realisation I had recently: idleness is not a capital crime

@garbados @Cocoron
I respect your optimism.
I'm afraid I see things like water and energy, and I suspect that there is not enough of them, in fact, to go around.

@shadowfirebird i can't speak for wherever you're at, but where i'm at, we have so much excess energy that we store it in the form of massive artificial lakes. see also: we have plenty of water.

scarcity of these things is real in many places, but it's often artificial to some degree due to prices and profiteering. even under scarcity, we can distribute goods more equitably than this nightmare.

@vfrmedia @garbados @shadowfirebird
No, not so much in the UK. But in a *lot* of other places in the world, and not all of them poor ones either.

@garbados its amazing to me that these land lots or buildings go untouched because there's no 'profit' in them. We could just utilize them for people and have them as group shelters

@garbados Alas, that depends on abundant energy and boundless supplies of minerally-sourced plant nutrients.

We're in foreseeable deep trouble. It's a matter of when, not if, it comes.

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