also someone got mad at this post and sent a very long email to Andy and *FOUR* gnu mailing lists. as soon as you criticize rms there are a bunch of termites that come out of the woodwork asking for "proof."

I don't think english is this person's first language and I want to be clear that I'm not making fun of non-native english writers, but the demands and accusations in this email are just *bonkers*.

lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gui

oh and that email links to a blog post that accuses the guix maintainer of violating guix's code of conduct and gnu's "kind communication guidelines". wow.

hahaha oh boy they are mad that they can't comment on guix's blog so I guess I'm implicated as well because I wrote their blog software.

oh and it gets even better. the blog post cites *anonymous comments on 4chan* to show how mad people are. these comments are, of course, full of offensive language that is the norm on 4chan.

@dthompson

I saw that too

it's delirious

These people are really bonkers

But this fury is positive, I think

That means that these posts by mantainers are politically significant, I think

@dthompson this is all incredibly depressing, but as an aside your blog software looks pretty neat and this has reminded me that i want to give guix a look.

@brennen thanks! the software is just a static site generator, which is why there are no comments. you'd have to add disqus integration with javascript or something in order to have comments.

@dthompson yeah, i maintain one of those myself (of which, as far as i have been able to tell the last 18 years or so, i have always been the sole user) and have come to view the absence of comments as belonging strongly to the "feature" category.

@brennen the venn diagram of "all programmers" and "programmers who have their own static site generator" is a circle.

also I absolutely agree that lack of comments is a feature. no spam to control, no trolls to block. it's wonderful.

@dthompson @brennen I've wondered if you could substitute a fediverse thread for a comment system; like if the blog post was exposed via activitypub, you could either display a JS widget or link to the AP-hosted copy of the post which could show the replies?

@dthompson @technomancy i could swear i've seen someone doing that exact sort of thing around here, but i can't now recall who...

@brennen @dthompson tbh I kind of assumed that was the whole point of writefreely.org/ but I haven't looked into it. it's not a particularly novel idea so I'm sure others have taken a swing at it.

@technomancy @dthompson @brennen I've hosted a writefreely blog and it only federates out, replies don't federate in last I checked

@pea @brennen @dthompson ah huh; what's the point of that then? might as well just write an atom->AP converter to get the same job done with much less fuss.

@brennen @dthompson @technomancy I've done that once, inspired by Bradley Kuhn using identi.ca for his blog.

@kensanata @brennen @dthompson @technomancy

Yes, unfortunately it's been unstable, haven't had time to dig into why, but it may be due to a bad build. But when it's up, it treats the `Note` replies that pleroma/mastodon sends in reply to the `Article` types as threaded comments.

@brennen @technomancy @dthompson

So many of us having the same thoughts on commenting systems. Some others already have done something about it.

https://joinplu.me/

#fediverse #disqus #activitypub

@dthompson why is it not justifiable to ask for creditable proof for the claims being made? Throughout this whole shit show, people have been using examples that have nothing to do with the claim being made, are a non-issue or are examples of the politically correct gone a muck.

@NullWhereMan no it's not justifiable because it's not a question being asked in good faith.

@dthompson Whenever I read something from Andy Wingo, I am either edified or inspired (or both).

@cstanhope same. smart guy in both a technical and social sense, a rarity in the software world, even more so in the free software world!

@dthompson Not going to lie, the blog post was blah, just a simple "to arms!" cry. I'm not against or for RMS, but I think this has been blown way out of proportion. So much coverage on one side to remove leaders and rebuild in some else vision. And this is not limited to GNU, software, tech.

The sign-off comment at the bottom about no gods, no leaders, etc, is also the nail in the coffin that makes me ignore a post.

@jordan31 this isn't about an isolated event. it's about *years* of bad behavior that has gone unchecked and many attempts to address issues privately have failed.

@dthompson A good essay with an even vantage on the dustup, if a melancholic conclusion.

I missed the glibc abortion “joke” and RMS clamping down on removing it. That’s choice. What a pettifogging clown. The discussion on LWN is exemplary of the general tenor in FOSSbro fora, as well. The whole GNU club is shuffling disfunction and personality worship masquerading as a movement. We desperately need better and wiser.

@Shufei yeah the discourse right now is pathetic and sad. I think, long term, their days are numbered, but would sure be nice if if this process could go a little faster!

@Shufei

I believe your "better" has existed in the form of open source. It has had adoption. Isn't that enough? Is there any other reason you are blowing off steam here now?

@dthompson

@dthompson “To me it has been clear for many years that to a first approximation, the answer is that RMS does nothing for GNU. RMS does not write software. He does not design software, or systems. ...

“By itself, this seems to me to be a failure of leadership for a software project like GNU. But unfortunately when RMS's role in GNU isn't neglect, more often as not it's negative.”

Rather! That is a harsh rating, but apt.

@dthompson I'm glad it it starts with the "the GNU project does not exist" meta-point. I've been confused about that, so it helped to see it explicitly included in the discussion here.

@keturn

That is true only if you divorce #GNU software development from its philosophy. That sound like what Torvalds sees in the #GPL. That is open source.

Which would make even the free/libre tag a charade, while mutilating the GNU name.

#GNU philosophy, and #RMS keeping a bead on what's admitted under the umbrella, is what gives it meaningfulness.

@dthompson
@dthompson

So ... This is the comments thread for that blog post. (Somehow, the blog author only posts gardening stuff on his Mastodon handle.)

It is reprehensible that #FSF used the media smear based on wrong quotes to take #RMS and "per" philosophy out of the FSF.

Now, atleast 1 GNU maintainer says philosophy has no place in software, and #RMS shouldn't have #GNU.

Basically, no place for philosophy in software.

Bollocks!

@brennen @technomancy
@dthompson

That blog post is saying openly what all the other actors may have as the unspoken motivation.

Taking #FSF and #GNU out of #RMS' control is a detail (a necessary one, as #Stallman would want #FSF to actively protect the copyrights assigned to it by contributors).

It is really about shaking "per" associates free of "per" fastidiousness about free/libre.

The free/libre ethos probably has never really been in some.

@brennen @technomancy

@wyatwerp @technomancy @brennen it's most definitely *not* about trying to undermine free software. I know several of the people that joined in on that statement and they all care very deeply about free software. there is no conspiracy here.

@dthompson

It is not at all about conspiracy.

It is all about maybe letting a non-activist take charge of THE #FreeSoftware organizations that matter (who have been assigned copyright over lots of code by hundreds if not thousands), in an atmosphere where "per" new in-charge has to mind "per" words even on unrelated websites and mailing lists.

Aren't any of those who assigned copyright to #GNU worried about this possibility?

@brennen @technomancy
@dthompson

In case it isn't apparent, I have great respect for all the signatories (those that I recognize by name). Hence the gnawing thought about what they are enabling.

#RMS' extremism is what has enabled so many non-technical people to avoid becoming part-time sys.admins of Windows PCs or hide-bound to whatever Apple deems is good for them.

@brennen @technomancy
@dthompson

Without #RMS, we wouldn't even have the BSDs surviving, because there wouldn't be enough open device drivers. Without the #GPL, we wouldn't have Linux' critical mass of developers putting in all the systems work; given Torvalds' short-sightedness on the Bitkeeper matter, it is unlikely he would have come up with something like the GPL.

We need more of #RMS nowadays, not less!

@brennen @technomancy

#FreeSoftware #GNU #Stallman #FSF

discourse, subtype gnu/rms/etc. 

discourse, subtype gnu/rms/etc. 

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