garboodos, haunted edition πŸ‘»

hello my name is diana and i make bad software πŸ‘‹

i like to work with p2p tech like dat and ipfs and stellar, and distributed databases like couchdb. i really like mesh networks but i haven't had the chance to work on one -- yet!

i believe there is enough for everyone. scarcity is a fiction and poverty is inflicted. we can be a better world for each other. we can be the change ✊ ❀

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@garbados thanks!
I love this especially:
"i believe there is enough for everyone. scarcity is a fiction and poverty is inflicted. we can be a better world for each other. we can be the change ✊ ❀"

Would love to chat more about this in the context of algorithmic/designer agency and social good (or social "bads")

@maron sure! lets chat more :D tell me more about algorithmic agency and social goods?

@garbados thats exactly what i want or need to know more about! :D

I just read Safiya Noble's book Algorithms of Oppression, which opened up ripe discussion opportunities. But to me Google's tweaks (to make things less racist/less propagandistic) are still a black box to me...I want to know more from the folks who code, how ya'll feel! (I'm 10 years out of date w/doing code/db design, haha)

@maron gotcha! i find corpers structurally incapable of addressing these problems, algorithms or not. they rely on artificial scarcity to entrench their wealth and power; they use automation solely to disenfranchise workers.

by comparison, mastodon instances are moderated by users, allowing communities to define their own sense of good and bad, right and wrong, without relying on some rich white guy's lack of conscience.

@garbados who are the gatekeepers/where are the delimiters between just allowing democratic discourse (in say a search results corpus) and gatekeeping so that the "bad stuff" doesnt happen in our lived world so much. (perhaps naive sounding, but im genuinely curious)

@maron the gatekeepers in the fediverse are moderators and administrators, who independently arrive at moderation decisions that allow communities to define and defend themselves. it's *the* reason mastodon appears nazi-free, because instance moderators silence and suspend them. corper platforms profit from fascists, so they'll never have the same incentives to protect users from hate.

@garbados this is extremely thought provoking- thank you!

i discussed Safiya's book with colleagues today, although the technocratic/bureaucratic elements weren't emphasized much in our chat (though someone did mention the unscrupulous nature of search engine 'corpers').

but it's hard to have a conversation about ethics/gatekeeping in these spaces without talking about these things you bring up.

@garbados in the spirit of a more equitable advisor pointed me to this intersectionally feminist/queer Linked Data ontology today though, looks really cool

esp. interesting given recent criticisms ive heard about linked open data, their standard implementations and APIs (which ive posted here, I believe)

@garbados I'd say that was a very fine intro! The last paragraph is key. I just consolidated and trying to smoosh the intros together...

...should be considered a draft.

@garbados Hey don't forget to hit me up if/when you get to hacking on mesh networks here in town. I'm still pretty slammed myself but I dragged my box of ARM boards out last week and started playing again, that's at least faintly adjacent πŸ˜…

@deutrino !!! HELL YES!

i have a box of parts ready to go but no where to work on them. we should meet up and goof around with electronics!

@garbados 😁 Yeah I have a few old ARM boards and a box of old routers myself. Do you mind if I tag another local friend who's into this stuff? We'd been talking about maybe doing some kind of semi-regularish hack/craft night and we've done hack nights in the past, even tried to work on Diaspora once.

Hey @gdorn, tagging you to this thread - we wanna get together and play with mesh networking and whatever else kinda like you and I have been talking adjacently to. I do still have a box with like 6 routers in it, and you have your cool CenturyLink/wireless rig to show off... :)

@garbados Ohai!

Β I've been recently pointed at Stellar as potentially a non-accumulative cryptocurrency (as opposed to the inherently rich-get-richer PoW/PoS schemes). Is there anything to that, or should I keep looking? I skimmed a number of whitepapers from the webpage, but couldn't really make out the specific reward mechanisms.Β I might just suck at reading.

@pettter stellar is a meta-currency that uses ita native cryptocoin, β€œlumens”, as a functional token for combatting DDoS attacks. i wouldn’t recommend investing in a coin, ever, but because lumens are of functional value rather than fiat value, i believe it’s a sturdier system than bitcoin / ethereum.

@garbados It's a meta-currency in the same way that any other blockchain is? I.e. all the myriad tokens on the Ethereum blockchain for example?

How are lumens distributed? How are they of "functional" value?
@garbados OK, so yes to the first question, and essentially PoS and transaction fees to the second set?
@garbados Guess I'll keep looking for that mythical non-accumulative blockchain then. Cheers!
@garbados Essentially that the currency is distributive rather than accumulative, (for individuals, not cryptographic keys or computer identities). It's a tricky thing, to be sure, and one I'm not convinced _can_ be encoded into a cryptocurrency, especially in an "economically viable" form, but if the promise is to replace governments with something _better_, that's what I'd like to see.

@pettter im not sure i understand what you mean by β€œdistributive”

is community governance via immutable ledger really your goal?

@garbados That's the promise I've heard from blockchain advocates.

For both PoW and PoS it is clear that the more resources you have, the faster you'll gain new ones, both in absolute, and, crucially, in relative terms. That is, the economic power in the system is going to be accumulated to a few single individuals, eventually. It is a common feature of capitalist societies especially, and a primary function of a democratic government is (in my view) to counteract that tendency, distributing capital in a more fair manner through for example progressive taxation, antitrust laws, nationalisations and company breakups etc.

If a blockchain were to act as a moral good in replacing government, it would have to include similar distributive measures.


The thing there is that Democratic distribution isn't primarily for the benefit of those distributed to (although it's a big benefit) the primary aim is to maintain conditions where capitalism can even have a stable market at all. The main reason cryptocurrency can't do what you ask is that to build interest from cryptocurrency advocates it would eventually have to tie Democratic power to ownership, just like any capitalist system in decline

@pettter @garbados If you could formalize some set of criteria then maybe a cryptocurrency could be designed around it. In the past I saw things like Freicoin where the is less value to holding currency, but like many such things it never gained any popularity.

For any successful cryptocurrency there needs to be distribution of the currency, at least initially, otherwise there just aren't enough players to support any kind of exchange economy. This seems to be the critical problem with a lot of cryptocurrencies. A few people with GPUs generate coins and, er, that's it.

@garbados definitely want to make mesh network in my city, working to get it running, looking forward to detroits network too

@garbados Where to start with them? P2P is a big chance for everyone!

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