prisoner's dilemma thoughts 

here's a cooperatized prisoner's dilemma formulation for ya, premised on the scenario of two survivalists. collab means you commit labor to getting food, keeping fires, etc. and defect means you don't.

- collab + collab = 5pts each
- collab + defect = 2pts each
- defect + defect = 0 pts each

points are good. only if nobody does survival labor does everyone lose. if everyone works together, they get more done. even if not everyone works, everyone eats while there's anything to eat.

nash equilibrium at that point is to always collaborate. reminder of the classical dilemma's role in capitalist theology.

prisoner's dilemma thoughts 

@garbados What is the cost of labor (benefit of defection) here? If it's zero (or if everything is described by that 0+0/2+2/2+2/5+5 matrix), then collaboration is a dominant strategy (if I collaborate, I will improve my own condition from 0 to 2 or from 2 to 5), and there is no dilemma.

prisoner's dilemma thoughts 

@garbados If, on the other hand, a player has to spend 4 points to do "labor" (it's always easier to do nothing than to do survival labor), we get the following conditions:
* Collab + collab = 1pt each (everybody spends 4pts on labor and gets 5pts in return).
* Collab + defect = -2pts for collaborator, 2pts for defector (collaborator spends 4pts on labor, and everybody gets 2pts in return).
* Defect + defect = 0pt each (nobody spends anything, nobody gets anything).

prisoner's dilemma thoughts 

@garbados Now that would be a dilemma, with collaboration no longer being a dominant strategy, and with all the consequences of the original prisoner's dilemma like tit for tat etc.
What am I missing there?

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re: prisoner's dilemma thoughts 

@penartur there is no cost of labor in the formulation. you’d be doing stuff anyway, so why not do survival stuff?

in the 0-point scenario, everyone starves, so there’s really no benefit to defection.

re: prisoner's dilemma thoughts 

@garbados But I can simply sit idly on a salvaged couch, can't I?
And if I have to do stuff anyway, then, again, I fail to see what is the dilemma here, and why do you call it "dilemma".

> in the 0-point scenario, everyone starves, so there’s really no benefit to defection.

If there is a cost of labor (as in my example), I will starve even worse if I collaborate while the other one defects.

re: prisoner's dilemma thoughts 

@penartur it’s based on the original prisoner’s dilemma, ergo calling it a dilemma. my point is that as you shift point values, it stops being a dilemma, because the entire exercise is theological.

re: prisoner's dilemma thoughts 

@garbados So, looking at Prisoner's Dilemma definition from Wikipedia, while in classical prisoner's dilemma T>R>P>S, in your scenario R>T=S>P (and of course it stops being a dilemma). Do I understand you right?

re: prisoner's dilemma thoughts 

@penartur you got it

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