the joys of noscript 

noscript makes sites you regularly use progressively degrade as their devs load more and more functionality into client-side javascript. at first these webbed sites just send you html with some js niceties that i don't care about. but then the html displays incorrectly without js, and later it doesn't work at all.

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greetings from the alternate present where browsers only use gopher and webdevs use audited state machines instead of one-off monoliths

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them: state machines are important but auditing them is how you prove their worth
me: what about stateless machines 🏴
them: actually state is very imp--- hey get down from there
me: *toppling a statue of RMS* all power to the people
them: <_<

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@garbados I use uMatrix now, but sometimes there's a website I can't fight with and I'm like "OK, allow all the fucking JavaScript I guess"

@teslas_moustache yeah i sometimes get picky about js but generally when a site i need breaks i just sigh and enable javascript. "fine, come in," i say as javascript rushes into my house, "just, please, don't hurt me or my family"

@garbados Do tell us more about gopher and audited state machines :pensive_party_blob:

@dangoljames gopher is a text-only protocol where a browser using gopher doesn't execute any of the data received from a website, so client-side software is just... not a thing. neither is CSS. it's just text and files 🤷‍♀️

state machines are really valuable and flexible ways of approaching certain problems including webdev, but they're extraordinarily labor-intensive: you plot all the possible states of an application (or app type), which takes a long time and involves a lot of revising oversights, but in the end you have this robust encapsulation of the problem. phone systems work like this because it works really, really well.

but capitalism never sees fit to afford that labor, and instead tries to cut corners with one-off monoliths. if we had proper trade guilds and worker unions, we could marshal the labor to create durable tooling the likes of which capitalists cannot even imagine.


I actually used gopher extensively before the web caught on (Yes I am a greybeard).

As for webapps, I have generally worked alone and with esoteric languages like node and python. I find using state machines useful especially for things that run on schedules.

@garbados I gave up PHP/CodeIgnighter/JQuery about 5 years ago in favor of node, and then recently gave up node for python/flask/jinja2 and a homebrew mvc pattern.

It's currently my modus operandii 😎

Of course I still use JS/JQuery iff needed, but I try to do about anything to avoid it. It isn't so much about performance or security as it is simplicity and uniformity.

the joys of noscript 

@garbados I tried to use twitter without js yesterday, as a bit, and it's kind of funny how broken it is. like they clearly tried to make it work a long time ago but there's ~a decade of code rot and stuff just fails all over the place

re: the joys of noscript 

@aeonofdiscord yeah twitter is hilarious in this regard. like the page loads, tweet and all, AND THEN a noscript block asks you if you want to view this toot, but in a shitty broken UI 🙄

the joys of noscript 

@aeonofdiscord @garbados yeah but masto won't even show images without scripts for some reason; it's pretty cringey too

re: the joys of noscript 

@technomancy @aeonofdiscord everything is bad. none of you are free from sin

re: the joys of noscript 

@garbados @aeonofdiscord if you want something done right, ya gotta do it yourself, which is why I'm now

*checks clipboard*

writing my own activitypub server!

(tbh I'd be a whole lot more tempted if migrating domains didn't mean losing all my followers in one fell swoop)

re: the joys of noscript 

@technomancy @aeonofdiscord i tried that and then ran out of steam, multiple times. if you want something done right you should unionize so your efforts can be meaningfully supported by a context of other meaningfully supported colleagues 🤷‍♀️

re: the joys of noscript 

@bamfic @garbados @aeonofdiscord I am not actually writing an activitypub implementation.

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