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le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

~18% into the book and i'm delighted by how utterly alien capitalist society is, how sensible solidarity and consent are. i just wish my pdf copy were better XD

re: le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

the subtitle of the book is "an ambiguous utopia" which i assume means Anarres and its Odonian solidarity, but characters -- even children -- are quick to dismiss utopianism with taoist questions about the nature of life and suffering. we do not organize in solidarity to end Pain, though it can end this pain and that; so integral is it to living that it cannot be evicted from life.

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re: le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

> And the strangest thing about the nightmare street was that none of the millions of things for sale were made there. They were only sold there. Where were the workshops, the factories, where were the farmers, the craftsmen, the miners, the weavers, [...], where were the hands, the people who made? Out of sight, somewhere else. Behind walls. All the people in all the shops were either buyers or sellers. They had no relation to the things but that of possession.

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le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@garbados Yo! I love that book! There's a way to get a free audiobook version of it through hoopladigital.com if you have a US library card.

le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@starwall @garbados I recently started my second read of it & agree that it's absolutely amazing

I love how she brings out these feelings of being a person with the ideals of Annares/feeling like a denizen of Annares (an idealized world), while being forced to navigate the social structures and believers of Urres (the contemporary world) & an honest/holistic picture of how even the community around those ideals can leave even believers wanting

le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@deme @garbados realistically, even within an anarchist society there would be those who want even less organization, and those who still have their greed or laziness. She examines the flaws of it in a satisfactory way, rather than making Anneres out to be a utopia, it's just an anarchist planet.

re: le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@starwall @deme

> just an anarchist planet

this feels so far like one of the book's many triumphs: that Annares feels to me like a kind of utopia, free of the artificial famines that define my choices, but it is only a place, full of people who are only people, who dream and want and hurt like we do. the liberty they have achieved has a shape with edges and limits so that it is not magical but as real and as plain as dirt.

re: le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@garbados @starwall this is beautifully stated wow

I think the pleasure in how real she made it is important, too, b/c of how it demonstrates that an anarchist society, one with near utopian ideals, is possible if only we do the work of imagining one

re: le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@deme @garbados reading the Dispossessed kindled in me not only just a fascination with anarchist theory but the thought that was "Oh, oh wait, this could work. This could really work, huh." and that basically put me down the path I'm on now.

re: le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@starwall @garbados that's so amazing :3 I only read it for the first time...maybe over the summer. I'm rereading it now b/c I haven't been able to get it out of my head since then (I rarely reread books, and when I do there's normally a few years b/n at least)

I already held my anarchist beliefs at that point, but am sad I didn't read it when I was younger and more confused about politics & social values b/c I think it woulda helped in the ways you described

re: le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@deme @garbados before reading it I kinda saw anarchism as just this fringe thing that people really didn't take all too seriously but after reading the Dispossessed I was struck with the profound realization that a society without property, currency, and hierarchy was a legitimate way of doing things. It crystallized it in my imagination, made it real and relatable, made it something that I could not only imagine, but make real. It was an exciting moment.

re: le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@starwall @deme @garbados I think when it sunk in for me was when I saw a documentary, I think called "The History Of Anarchism" (on youtube and peertube, divided into a handful of segments)

I used to think anarchy was a violent free-for-all of everybody against everybody, which seems to be what ancaps think of it as, but it never really occurred to me how fundamentally mutual it was until around that point, and when I later looked further into revolutionary calatonia as a real-world example

tbh I've never heard of or read this book, so for a while all I had to look at was history and occasionally ideas from historical figures, but this instance of mastodon in particular, with its handful of news-bots, both rekindled my hope in it becoming an actual thing, and gave me a newfound interest in watching current events instead of just mulling over history; thinking about what can be instead of just what could have been

re: question on said documentary 

@solarpunkgnome @starwall @deme @garbados yep that one

actually I think it was one of the first things I watched on peertube, only found out it was also on youtube after finishing it

re: le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@garbados @deme I couldn't have said it better.

le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@garbados
Thanks for mentioning the book, did not know it.

le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@garbados

Great book, reading it

"[...] Physicists, mathematicians, astronomers, logicians, biologists, all were here at the University, and they came to him or he went to them, and they talked, and new worlds were born of their talking. It is of the nature of idea to be communicated: written, spoken, done. The idea is like grass. It craves light, likes crowds, thrives on crossbreeding, grows better for being stepped on." ([1], Ch. 3)

[1]: marx.libcom.org/library/dispos

le guin's, "the dispossessed" 

@xldrkp hell yeah

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