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just read an apartment therapy before/after article about a kitchen renovation and the person said they got rid of their dishwasher because they don't have many dishes to clean (fine) and that it seems like a water waster (completely wrong!!!) and I screamed internally. hand washing uses much more water!!!

@dthompson I remember being shocked to find out just how much more efficient modern day dishwashers are at water use than hand washing. Did not expect it.

@cwebber yeah it's counterintuitive for some reason. thanks federal efficiency regulations! hope they don't get rolled back!

@cwebber @dthompson I'm likewise surprised by this

is water used in pre-rinsing included?

@joeyh @dthompson pre-rinsing by the machine or pre-rinsing by the person loading them into the dishwasher?

Yes to the former, dunno by the latter.

@cwebber @dthompson I mean the latter, every time I've used someone's dishwasher they've remanded I pre-wash (I think it's nonsense, but it seems common)

@joeyh @cwebber @dthompson I believe it depends on the dishwasher if pre-rinsing by hand is needed.

@joeyh @dthompson I only pre-rinse things that have big or particularly sticky things on them but I know others vary in their habits (including in my household)

@joeyh @cwebber yeah pre-rinsing is a controversial subject. my dishwasher instructions say to scrape off the dishes but not to pre-rinse. I will pre-rinse if anything is really stuck on there, like egg, that I know won't come off.

@cwebber @joeyh @wobblysaeeda this is the most interesting discussion about dishwashers I've ever had.

@dthompson Meal, Ready to Eat!

I have been figuring out how to make "just add hot water" vegetarian meals. I have quite a few recipes!

@dthompson @joeyh @wobblysaeeda Actually I bet this can be combined with the dehydrated MRE type food things I've been doing. If you pack individual meals into the tiny mason jars, then add water into them right before running the dishwasher and put them in the dishwasher, I bet it will cook them pretty well

This is a terrible idea and I have to try it now

@cwebber @dthompson @wobblysaeeda @mlemweb I mean you could just add a heat exchanger to your dishwasher drain pipe..

@joeyh @mlemweb @wobblysaeeda @dthompson @cwebber Modern dishwashers don't need heat exchangers because they recirculate the water, and a heat exchanger would require regular cleaning to avoid clogging with food. They do have thermostatically controlled water heaters though, so cooking food in one would not save any energy because it would have to expend more energy to keep the water hot.

@cwebber @dthompson @joeyh This could actually be pretty ok? you can wash a full load of dishes (and the outsides of your maison jars) at the same time...

@cwebber @dthompson @joeyh @wobblysaeeda My mother would never allow enough unused space in a dishwasher to cook meals like this in one.

@faoluin @cwebber @joeyh @wobblysaeeda seasoned dishwasher cooks install a second dishwasher for just this reason

@cwebber @dthompson
also, the hand-washing numbers I found seem to assume one is running the faucet continually while washing

(I typically use 5 gallons to hand wash and rinse a full sink of dishes. Double sinks have two sinks precisely to allow this to be done efficiently.)

@joeyh @cwebber my current dishwasher says it uses around 2-3 gallons per cycle.

@joeyh @cwebber @dthompson I know about how long it takes to fill the kettle with 1 liter (quart) of water, and I dont think I let the tap run even that long when I do one dinner's dishes for three people.

Spray bottle with detergent + water saves me a lot of detergent and water.

Showering uses far less water than taking a bath.

@cwebber @dthompson I have also internalized the surprising information that dishwashers are probably a lot more efficient than they seem. But are they more efficient even if you're just washing a small number of dishes?

And I wash dishes by hand in ways that aren't very efficient (like keeping the water running), but I don't have an easy way to measure how inefficient.

@npd @cwebber I think if you're just washing a few things then you could be more efficient hand washing, but probably not by much.

@npd @dthompson @cwebber I think that what you are supposed to do when you use few dishes is to wait until the dishwasher is full and then run it.

When I was living alone I remember I bought multiple kitchen tools so that I was able to cook more meals before I needed to wash some (and the dishwasher was run every other day, filled with more pots than plates).
@valhalla @dthompson @cwebber @npd But then if you're filling the machine over the course of several days ... you're going to want to prewash the things. And then we're back at square zero. 😀
@clacke @npd @dthompson @cwebber I never prewashed, just scraped off big remains (if any) and washing every other day wasn't an issue (no smells, things got cleaned just fine); I don't live in a tropical country, however, that may reduce the time one can afford to leave dirty dishes around.

Also, if you need more than two days to fill the machine, yes, it may be a problem.

@dthompson I wonder if "European style" handwashing is more efficient (where you soap the dishes and fill the sink and wash them out in the same disgusting sudsy water) - rather than 'American style' where you have the tap running and wash each dish with fresh water.

@dthompson I guess double quotes are European and single quotes are American (I know they're not really quotes but python gives me bad habits - as does being an unfashionable nun)

@wobblysaeeda @dthompson And the Python style guide merely says "be consistent in the same module" about them iirc

@cwebber @dthompson It's so you can use quotes inside a string without having to escape them e.g. 'what "fun" this is' or "what 'fun' this is"

@wobblysaeeda I would suspect that both are less efficient, with the latter being obviously way less efficient. when I hand wash I typically have a larger item like a bowl that I fill with the soapy water, then I scrub, then I run the faucet at the very end to rinse each item.

@dthompson That's a pretty good system. I also try not to pre-rinse when I use a dishwasher (they are better than I think they will be) to avoid using too much water.

@wobblysaeeda @dthompson They're both wrong.

- Don't fill the sink.
- Don't keep the water running.
@plant boy @Christopher Lemmer Webber My water supply is 100% what we collect from rain and we're in a drought of biblical proportions. Using the dishwasher correctly is an art form. Never ever use the default cycle.
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