One cannot participate in today's society without adequate education.

"Education is human right" is not enough, we must make sure students are financially secure throughout their studies, from daycare to the day their PhDs are conferred to them.

Companies in need of specialised labour should handle the cost of educating their staff, instead of outsourcing it to the government, crowding up and debilitating universities (coops already do that, invest way better in their worker-owners, but capitalist companies rely on free labour for the vast majority of specialised workers' training, and that's unjust).

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@bound @ljwrites You mean the climate related stuff recently? IMHO it's a good proof that students possess political power. There are also grad student unions. But imho we should also push for making sure good education is way more accessible to students and that they are more powerful when facing financial abuse or abuse by peers/staff. Currently students and non-tenured staff are very powerless worldwide e.g. when they are abused by higher ups, for example.

I have this vague idea of universities as coop structures where students are staff share votes of equal power but I hadn't had much time to thing about it yet.

@cadadr yeah, was thinking of the school climate strikers.

we have students' unions at universities here, but they are a tool of the universities and almost invariably not remotely radical. (and when they are its transitory)

as for universities as co-ops that sounds great, but universities and academia have a whole bunch of other institutional power dynamic problems to address that won't be solved without real reflection on the elitism, authority and hierarchy of specialist education

@bound I think by grad students unionizing @cadadr might have meant forming or joining workers' unions like SEIU in North America. Agreed that school student unions are often wimpy and useless. In Korea student unions were often formidable forces while protesting the military regime up to the 80s, to the extent the government would shut schools down to curb protests. Another good case of students having political power. Student resistance has been neoliberalized and weakened to hell, but isn't dead--I mean protests at my alma mater, a women's university, tipped the dominos that led to the last downfall of the last President and I'm really proud of that!

@ljwrites @bound Similarly here in Turkey, the '80 coup is effectively a coup against students and student movements. A lot of blood was shed by the junta to terrorise the student population into inaction, and the structures like YÖK (a central institution controlling all universities) and some weird rules like the govt picking the rectors are a product of that coup, and were effectively tools to control the youth through universities.

Re: unionising, yes, that's what I meant. It's grad students and postdocs doing most of the work in all departments anyways. That includes a lot of unpaid, unrecognised, secretary work that the persons themselves should be doing.

@cadadr @bound oof sorry to hear--the military regime here tried that too, but student deaths just fueled more protests and hastened the regime's downfall. I wonder what the difference was--maybe that the U.S. cared more about optics in ROK than in Turkey and exercised more pressure in ROK, despite both of them being allies, or the U.S. was more confident that a democratic government in ROK would stay amenable to its geopolitical interests than one in Turkey (and turned out to be right about ROK).

Yup, unionizing not only has a positive effect on student pay, unions can also act to correct some of the imbalances and abuses of power that students are subject to. Universities are feeling the threat and their anti-union messaging is both amusing and appalling.

@ljwrites @bound I think part of it is that both right wing extremists (Ülkücüler, precursors of MHP, etc) and left wing extremists were very active and it's gotten pretty violent towards the end of it (because of trigger happy nationalist right wing cunts, if I were to put it kindly). That justified the violence in the eyes of the public because right winger students had it tough with the coup too, and people were worn down by the whole violence, they didn't care about the who and why of stuff. Still to this day people who lived through those times think of the junta as saviours. It was basically old men going "hey youths, killing and politics is our job, you better stick to prepping to become good docile wage slaves."

Another factor might be that Turkish left is really Anti-US. Most of it wasn't really green party liberal social democracy, but good old grassroots communism. IDK how involved US has been but there's that. Modern Turkish nationalist right is the product of US itself (e.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truman_D), but the 80's coup attempted to gut that group too. Dunno, maybe they were too out of control. These groups are good as minor terrorising elements, but maybe undesirable as strong ruling forces...

Universities are feeling the threat and their anti-union messaging is both amusing and appalling.

news.yahoo.com/theyre-trying-b

The university’s president emailed the parents of NYU students this week and described the strike as “unwarranted, untimely, and regrettable.” The email sparked a backlash and a slew of jokes on social media from some of the graduate students, many of them older than 30, whose parents received it.

I.e. too many ded 'n' smooth old privileged brains in dem administrative seats.

@cadadr Yeah, I remember reading that a resistance movement only gets widespread support if it's nonviolent, or, if it must use violent means (like the NAACP's necessary decision to take up arms), at least gains the confidence that it's capable of stable governance without constant violence. The vast majority of people want stability and safety above all, and that's understandable.

The U.S. was a big force in supporting, pressuring for, and legitimizing the pro-democracy movement in Korea, which was a broad coalition across the political spectrum--which is another big reason for the military regime's downfall, because when even the right-wingers are sick of your shit you've really lost everyone. At points U.S. pressure was the only thing standing between a major leader of the pro-democracy movement and later President Kim Dae-jung and literal death, and we all know Uncle Sam would never have done that if it weren't sufficiently assured that Kim would be good for their interests. I have a hard time imagining it doing so for Turkish Communist leaders.

@cadadr also omg that email! I'd laugh my ass off if my kid's school essentially tried to tell on my grown kid to me for labor organization, of all things. If anything, if this were news to me I'd be shocked and disappointed--at him for not telling me so I could support him, and more fundamentally at myself for not being there for him.

@ljwrites Well that's what you'd do but my coup-witness quasi-boomer apolitical mom would probably have an heart attack, which I'm sure what they had in mind. Pyschological warfare through old, worried and fearful parents that are provinces/countries apart from their kids. Real sinister.

@cadadr yup, a minority of parents would act like us but it would peel off some of the movement and have a chilling effect on it :( it's manipulative bullshit but I'll bet it was at least partially effective.

@ljwrites Yeah, and that's kinda why I'm personally uninterested in mass protests as a main tool of resistance. It is very easy for the ruling class to subvert it. The police do it all the time. They attack you hard and the protest goes from a peaceful protest to a battle, bc you either sit there taking gas cans and "non-lethal" rubber[-coated metal] bullets [that are actually lethal], or defend/attack.

Building legit power, arguments and sympathy is IMO a more effective way of resistance. Strikes are, too, way more effective. Protests should be last resort IMO.

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